Thanks for writing, but I disagree. For reference, I'm a board certified internist with 26 years practice experience.
Glad you're raising awareness, and I'm sorry your high school failed you, but they did, and now its up to you to plug that hole. You are in PROFESSIONAL SCHOOL. You are drinking from a fire hydrant, and guess what, it wont be enough. ANYTHING that isn't centered on how to diagnose, treat, cure, prevent, or comfort you simply don't have time for them to be doing.
The good news is that you have a wonderful tool in the internet that CAN teach you financial literacy in your understandably limited free time should you seek it out over the next several months/years. You're going to be busy, i know, that's why I said months/years (here's a start, clark.com). Advocate for this being a part of basic education, but I'm sorry, that's passed for you and now its your responsibility. Best of luck in the future!
Good points. Also lost in the arguments about student loan forgiveness is the fact that student loans have no consumer protections, like bankruptcy. You basically can't get them removed unless you die or become paralyzed. :) Comparing student loans to other types of loans is apples and oranges.
Germany has a system of REAL LIFE "apprenticeships" that students must go through before they are allowed to pursue certain fields.
This should be applied across the board.
In the early days of schooling, the purpose was simply to create literate workers who could then LEARN their job IN the workplace.
But then corporations out-sourced job training to the educational system. That was the ruination of education.
No person should be swung into powerful professions straight from the breast. Professions should require some adult independent living before pursuit of higher education.
There's no need to single out medicine, this problem exists across the board.
I first went to CEGEP ("college" designed as two years of pre-university in Quebec) in 1983. I was in the sciences, but in my second year, I took Economics 101 as an elective. My prof was an interesting fellow (as the vast majority of the 120 teachers I've had in my life) and he asked the class of mostly 18 year olds: "How many of you have bought a quart of milk in your life?" and only a quarter raised their hand. He concluded: "so you all are in the class learning to be managers, looking to hire and fire workers, and you don't know the cost of milk". (me, I wasn't yet lactose intolerant, I was still drinking 2-3 quarts a week, and I'd been buying my own milk for near two years).
I knew then the world was fucked. That the powers that be were placing puppets in positions of power.
I finished high school in 1983. I had two Home Economics classes, they weren't optional. I guess my high school still valued a well rounded education for students.
How is this a problem that can be fixed? My wife and I have for the past four years had to file the FAFSA with our daughter also having to go through the process. The various loans all stipulate their requirements and the terms are not hidden. Medical students are of significantly above average intelligence, and the few who aren't are gifted with grit, and have taken enough math to understand the terms of the contracts. I suspect they've all been given rose-colored glasses and are (too) optimistic about their future earnings. I probably was too but college was significantly cheaper back in the stone age.
Additionally, although I'm now retired, I knew of no physicians in poor financial conditions from ONLY their student loans. There was typically gambling, poor investments decisions, or other life event that contributed to their money problems.
the covid era has convinced me many doctors are highly trained technicians. not thinkers, not scientists. robotic comes to mind. often they are very narrowly educated, in part bec they don't have the chance to take electives outside bio, chem, math etc.
Excellent article about this very concerning national problem. The American Institute of Certified Public Accountants initiated a financial literacy effort a number of years ago. Their special website at the link below for "360 Degrees of Financial Literacy" contains a lot of resources, and it's all free.
Financial illiteracy goes beyond medical school. The lack of knowledge about how to run a practice, survive in a world of increasing costs and shrinking reimbursement has resulted in the steady loss of private practice docs with a concomitant rise in consolidation. This is largely by design. Perhaps medical education should focus less critical race theory and more accounting and investing.
Perhaps it’s my cynicism but I can’t help but feel our financial literacy is exactly where our leaders want it to be. Students taking out federally guaranteed loans to get a degree that probably won’t pay off in the long run keeps the banks and the universities happy, even if it’s of little value to the individual. And if more Americans were wiser in finance, they’d realize spending money you don’t have is not the way to build wealth. But hey, at least our consumption-based economy thrives (allegedly) from all this spending and debt.
What is amazing to me is Michigan State University in-state tuition is $14,400; University of Florida in-state tuition is $6,400 and of that if you work hard the State of Florida gives you the Bright Future Scholarship which pays at least half of it. I do not think MSU gives a better education than UF, so how can they justify the tuition difference?
To me, the more frightening issue is how so many people seem content to remain financially ignorant. There is no curiosity or respect for the consequences of poor choices. We have now bred two generations that seem quite willing to turn this vital aspect of their lives over to fate and the government.
Highly recommend the White Coat Investor for financial education for docs. They’ve been around since 2011 and even offer CME credits for some of their programs. The amount of information they have is comprehensive and detailed across multiple platforms (blog, podcast, Reddit forum, etc.) Note: Not affiliated with them, just a happy consumer of their information for many years.
Education in America is completely failing the populace and destroying the welfare of future generations. In the 1970’s, a college education was within reach for most people who wanted it. It was cheap. Then Ronald Reagan took that away with his trickle down theory. Is financial education left out of much of primary, secondary, and post-secondary education in the United States in order to keep people poor and ignorant? Which are the 12 states that require students to take a personal finance course before they graduate high school? How many generations will it take to repair the damage that has been done?
This comment is a perfect example of financial illiteracy. The Reagan "trickle down theory" is a good example of those that know little about finance, taxes, wealth creation.
I grew up in California and attended college from 1968 to 1971, when tuition was affordable. I happened to come across this from my school newspaper as I was researching something else. This was evidently the turning point in making education out of reach for the non-elite.
1966-10-14 - Daily Sundial - CSUN University Library Digital Collections:
A. S. President John Cagle, along with 14 student leaders from Southern California have come out against gubematorial candidate Ronald Reagan's proposal to charge tuition in the State's colleges and universities.
“A. S. President John Cagle, along with 14 student leaders from Southern California have come out against gubematorial candidate Ronald Reagan's proposal to charge tuition in the State's colleges and universities.
Cagle emphasized that he was not against Reagan as a candidate, but only on his stand to charge tuition.
•That could be the final step that puts a college education beyond the reach of hundreds of young people in this state,* they charged. *I am definitely opposed to any levy of this sort for students, Cagle emphasized.“
Quite a fair observation, so I looked https://calmatters.org/explainers/california-cost-of-college-explained/. Apparently as time progressed, the legislature decided that other things were more important to fund. Given that CA is in essence a one party state despite times in which there was a Republican governor, that suggests voters think the budget is fine. Whether higher education costs relate to government loan availability might also be a factor. Clearly the costs have been much greater than inflation. Who knows if the spiral relates to CEO salaries which also rose greatly. Companies insist they must compete with the best salaries so colleges then must provide a better student union and campus to compete. Both don't make sense.
A bit of political buzzword nonsense. Part of the issue is blaming someone in order to gain a minimal political advantage. Pointless dross. The Feds have little to do with how states educate aside from skimming from taxes for pet programs not always that useful.
Christian,
Thanks for writing, but I disagree. For reference, I'm a board certified internist with 26 years practice experience.
Glad you're raising awareness, and I'm sorry your high school failed you, but they did, and now its up to you to plug that hole. You are in PROFESSIONAL SCHOOL. You are drinking from a fire hydrant, and guess what, it wont be enough. ANYTHING that isn't centered on how to diagnose, treat, cure, prevent, or comfort you simply don't have time for them to be doing.
The good news is that you have a wonderful tool in the internet that CAN teach you financial literacy in your understandably limited free time should you seek it out over the next several months/years. You're going to be busy, i know, that's why I said months/years (here's a start, clark.com). Advocate for this being a part of basic education, but I'm sorry, that's passed for you and now its your responsibility. Best of luck in the future!
Good points. Also lost in the arguments about student loan forgiveness is the fact that student loans have no consumer protections, like bankruptcy. You basically can't get them removed unless you die or become paralyzed. :) Comparing student loans to other types of loans is apples and oranges.
Very nice piece, I hope I can write like this once I’m a medical student
Germany has a system of REAL LIFE "apprenticeships" that students must go through before they are allowed to pursue certain fields.
This should be applied across the board.
In the early days of schooling, the purpose was simply to create literate workers who could then LEARN their job IN the workplace.
But then corporations out-sourced job training to the educational system. That was the ruination of education.
No person should be swung into powerful professions straight from the breast. Professions should require some adult independent living before pursuit of higher education.
There's no need to single out medicine, this problem exists across the board.
I first went to CEGEP ("college" designed as two years of pre-university in Quebec) in 1983. I was in the sciences, but in my second year, I took Economics 101 as an elective. My prof was an interesting fellow (as the vast majority of the 120 teachers I've had in my life) and he asked the class of mostly 18 year olds: "How many of you have bought a quart of milk in your life?" and only a quarter raised their hand. He concluded: "so you all are in the class learning to be managers, looking to hire and fire workers, and you don't know the cost of milk". (me, I wasn't yet lactose intolerant, I was still drinking 2-3 quarts a week, and I'd been buying my own milk for near two years).
I knew then the world was fucked. That the powers that be were placing puppets in positions of power.
I finished high school in 1983. I had two Home Economics classes, they weren't optional. I guess my high school still valued a well rounded education for students.
Must be the reason some MD's continue to vote for the tax & spend on steroids party.
How is this a problem that can be fixed? My wife and I have for the past four years had to file the FAFSA with our daughter also having to go through the process. The various loans all stipulate their requirements and the terms are not hidden. Medical students are of significantly above average intelligence, and the few who aren't are gifted with grit, and have taken enough math to understand the terms of the contracts. I suspect they've all been given rose-colored glasses and are (too) optimistic about their future earnings. I probably was too but college was significantly cheaper back in the stone age.
Additionally, although I'm now retired, I knew of no physicians in poor financial conditions from ONLY their student loans. There was typically gambling, poor investments decisions, or other life event that contributed to their money problems.
the covid era has convinced me many doctors are highly trained technicians. not thinkers, not scientists. robotic comes to mind. often they are very narrowly educated, in part bec they don't have the chance to take electives outside bio, chem, math etc.
Excellent article about this very concerning national problem. The American Institute of Certified Public Accountants initiated a financial literacy effort a number of years ago. Their special website at the link below for "360 Degrees of Financial Literacy" contains a lot of resources, and it's all free.
https://www.360financialliteracy.org/
Is Journal Club participation required in most medical schools? Is there any pressure on students to develop their critical thinking skills?
How many students know that RCTs only limit researcher bias in patient selection, but allow it in trial design?
How many students know that RCTs have strong intrinsic linkage, but weak extrinsic linkage and retrospectives have the inverse linkage?
Financial illiteracy goes beyond medical school. The lack of knowledge about how to run a practice, survive in a world of increasing costs and shrinking reimbursement has resulted in the steady loss of private practice docs with a concomitant rise in consolidation. This is largely by design. Perhaps medical education should focus less critical race theory and more accounting and investing.
Perhaps it’s my cynicism but I can’t help but feel our financial literacy is exactly where our leaders want it to be. Students taking out federally guaranteed loans to get a degree that probably won’t pay off in the long run keeps the banks and the universities happy, even if it’s of little value to the individual. And if more Americans were wiser in finance, they’d realize spending money you don’t have is not the way to build wealth. But hey, at least our consumption-based economy thrives (allegedly) from all this spending and debt.
What is amazing to me is Michigan State University in-state tuition is $14,400; University of Florida in-state tuition is $6,400 and of that if you work hard the State of Florida gives you the Bright Future Scholarship which pays at least half of it. I do not think MSU gives a better education than UF, so how can they justify the tuition difference?
To me, the more frightening issue is how so many people seem content to remain financially ignorant. There is no curiosity or respect for the consequences of poor choices. We have now bred two generations that seem quite willing to turn this vital aspect of their lives over to fate and the government.
Highly recommend the White Coat Investor for financial education for docs. They’ve been around since 2011 and even offer CME credits for some of their programs. The amount of information they have is comprehensive and detailed across multiple platforms (blog, podcast, Reddit forum, etc.) Note: Not affiliated with them, just a happy consumer of their information for many years.
Education in America is completely failing the populace and destroying the welfare of future generations. In the 1970’s, a college education was within reach for most people who wanted it. It was cheap. Then Ronald Reagan took that away with his trickle down theory. Is financial education left out of much of primary, secondary, and post-secondary education in the United States in order to keep people poor and ignorant? Which are the 12 states that require students to take a personal finance course before they graduate high school? How many generations will it take to repair the damage that has been done?
This comment is a perfect example of financial illiteracy. The Reagan "trickle down theory" is a good example of those that know little about finance, taxes, wealth creation.
I grew up in California and attended college from 1968 to 1971, when tuition was affordable. I happened to come across this from my school newspaper as I was researching something else. This was evidently the turning point in making education out of reach for the non-elite.
1966-10-14 - Daily Sundial - CSUN University Library Digital Collections:
A. S. President John Cagle, along with 14 student leaders from Southern California have come out against gubematorial candidate Ronald Reagan's proposal to charge tuition in the State's colleges and universities.
https://digital-collections.csun.edu/digital/collection/Sundial/id/4687/rec/510
“A. S. President John Cagle, along with 14 student leaders from Southern California have come out against gubematorial candidate Ronald Reagan's proposal to charge tuition in the State's colleges and universities.
Cagle emphasized that he was not against Reagan as a candidate, but only on his stand to charge tuition.
•That could be the final step that puts a college education beyond the reach of hundreds of young people in this state,* they charged. *I am definitely opposed to any levy of this sort for students, Cagle emphasized.“
Quite a fair observation, so I looked https://calmatters.org/explainers/california-cost-of-college-explained/. Apparently as time progressed, the legislature decided that other things were more important to fund. Given that CA is in essence a one party state despite times in which there was a Republican governor, that suggests voters think the budget is fine. Whether higher education costs relate to government loan availability might also be a factor. Clearly the costs have been much greater than inflation. Who knows if the spiral relates to CEO salaries which also rose greatly. Companies insist they must compete with the best salaries so colleges then must provide a better student union and campus to compete. Both don't make sense.
A bit of political buzzword nonsense. Part of the issue is blaming someone in order to gain a minimal political advantage. Pointless dross. The Feds have little to do with how states educate aside from skimming from taxes for pet programs not always that useful.