After reading Bobby Kennedy’s book I find it hard to justify pardoning him for anything. It seems that his entire career has been devoted to manipulating information for the benefit of pharmaceutical sales despite having clear knowledge of the dangers of treatments he has promoted. I would encourage anyone who hasn’t read the real Anthony Fauci to do so before drawing any conclusions as to what if any legal actions should be taken.
Some have expressed concern that a significant portion of the public has lost faith in the public health system. I am concerned that there are still some who believe it serves a useful function.
Fauci is a notable figure and his deeds deserve exposure and a degree of dishonor. Prosecution is unlikely to help our society. I hope that someone in American medicine will write a solid book on the misadventures of the American expert class during the pandemic with a prescriptive approach to how we should function in the future. Fauci was and is brilliant in some areas but never had a depth of experience in true public health. His arrogance carried us into many very dysfunctional policies which Dr Marine describes. Thanks for this sober perspective.
Does Hunter Biden's pardon serve as a badge of dishonor? I seriously doubt that his drug-addled brain can experience any shame whatever. Like Hunter's brain fog, Fauci's arrogance is an internal shield from any sense of shame or dishonor.
And pardon or none, biased media will praise him, and honest media will revile him. His malfeasance did incalculable harm to myriad individuals, he destroyed confidence in public health and further poisoned scientific debate, already a sick patient. Would that Dante's afterworld exist. There should be a special place reserved for AF in the ninth circle.
I agree in general. I had not thought of the clever idea that says, "why pardon somebody [prophylactically] if they have committed no crimes"? I think that Sleepy Joe should not give The Fauch a free skating ticket. Instead, let's ignore Fauch --- totally. He needs no more adulation oxygen. Please.
I completely agree with Dr. Marine based on #4 alone. It also is a huge badge of dishonor for those who labeled many people “conspiracy theorists” and used cancel culture against them. It won’t restore my opinion of public health, but it’ll make people like Fauci think really hard about the things they do. He and Biden made their beds, let’s make sure the beds they lie in reflect THEIR making.
Agreed. I hope we get the real conversations that are due and no one going forward should be accorded the god-like status this man held. While personally I’d like him to spend a few years in solitary confinement for all the harms he caused, prosecution is the wrong way to go for the reasons you describe.
Prosecuting a politician or bureaucrat for lying is akin to blaming the sun for rising in the east. A complete waste of time and effort that could be better used trying to abolish government agencies. Those who suffered loss of jobs or loved ones could file civil suits to tie Fauci and others up in court but that also accomplishes nothing of substance. It is interesting that many who properly despise Fauci seem to be enthusiastic over the ascension of the prime expositor and facilitator of the covid scam back into the presidency. Those who have faith in the justice system should reflect on the fact that the only person that committed an actual crime in the January 6th "insurrection" not only went unpunished but was actually given a promotion.
But he's not a politician, he's a scientist in the role of a scientific advisor. Scientists should have STANDARDS that point to finding TRUTH as we can best know it. Instead, he tried to hide the truth about Covid origins and tried to ruin the reputations of other scientists in order to hide the truth.
If this were just politicians mudslinging, then whatever - let the mudslingers pardon each other. We all know they're corrupt. BUT he acted as a scientist. Science and medicine have both been obfuscated. Scientists and doctors have lost their jobs and had their reputations intentionally ruined by Fauci to cover his own missteps and guilt. And that's on top of the shoddy job he did directing our Covid response.
If you've directly lied about the origins of a disease that you helped create and plotted to destroy the reputations of other scientists to hide it, you are guilty of high crimes against science. No pardon.
Keep in mind many scientists and doctors who opposed his views are STILL disgraced, STILL have lost their medical licenses, lost their jobs, lost their careers. Where is justice for those who spoke the truth and acted for science while putting their careers on the line? Pardoning Fauci simply sends the message that science and truth are dead.
Put yourself if the shoes of those out-of-work doctors whose medical license was taken away despite brilliant work, brilliant research.... How would you feel?
Many people were injured by the pandemic response. They deserve apologies, restitution, and thorough investigation into the response and covid origin. I think that prosecuting AF for perjury would serve as a distraction from these more important goals.
Joseph, there's a difference between "people" hurt by the pandemic response and top officials including Fauci trying to silence and smear the reputation of researchers and doctors who were offering scientific commentary on the virus, its origins, treatment options, and its lethality. In the former, he made mistakes, possibly to the level of malpractice. But silencing and destroying the reputations of scientists so that the truth is obfuscated is an offense against science itself. No pardon.
And if perjury is all they can get him on just like tax evasion is how you get the mob boss who murdered people, yeah not great, but I'll take it.
I think this general discussion misses a major point -- I have had the same discussion with Jay B and we just disagree. These problems will not be fixed until there are PERSONAL impacts from these kinds of malfeasances in a way that will discourage others in the future from doing the same thing. Most penalties for crimes are as much to discourage future perps as they are to punish those who have done the crime -- this case is no different.
We have an entire infrastructure where those making catastrophic decisions that impact literally millions of people never suffer ANY consequences from their actions for practical purposes. In the same way that CEOs have now been bound (by law) into criminal prosecution (besides civil) for malfeasances committed by their companies it would be equally valuable to have government decision makers held to the same standards. In fact, this is even MORE appropriate for the government group because if the company has a civil suit and loses, the company suffers. If the government has a civil suit (and does not quickly change the law so they cannot be sued that week) and loses, YOU and I suffer since we have to pay the bill. It is utterly perverse.
It sounds sweet to say "Why can't we all be friends?" and "Let's just move on and make things better." But that has a long history of not working. At least visible exposure, transparency, and appropriate punishment will raise a bar for the next megalomaniac that decides to do something different based on a different risk profile.
PS: You have an interesting point though that a pardon would mean he was guilty of something. But I think that point will be lost on many people who will think Biden is simply protecting Fauci from "the evil orange haired guy", not that we are admitting his guilt.
This is where time will expose more and I hope Fauci lives long enough to become aware of it. Although I don’t think Mengele ever cared so I doubt Fauci will either.
After reading Bobby Kennedy’s book I find it hard to justify pardoning him for anything. It seems that his entire career has been devoted to manipulating information for the benefit of pharmaceutical sales despite having clear knowledge of the dangers of treatments he has promoted. I would encourage anyone who hasn’t read the real Anthony Fauci to do so before drawing any conclusions as to what if any legal actions should be taken.
Sensible fans, help me reconcile the argument that COVID was harmless and at the same time masterminded in a lab?
Ends with “pompous, self-important figure who craves honor and glory.”
Editor writes “ad hominem is a sign of soft thinking.”
Not ad hominem, but an accurate description. Even Dr. Fauci's most ardent supporters would have to concede that he is arrogant and self-important.
Pompous too.
#4 is a very unique take. Scarlet letter does seem like a worthy reward for his missteps.
However, on principle I’m not a fan of “pre-emptive” pardons.
Some have expressed concern that a significant portion of the public has lost faith in the public health system. I am concerned that there are still some who believe it serves a useful function.
Fauci is a notable figure and his deeds deserve exposure and a degree of dishonor. Prosecution is unlikely to help our society. I hope that someone in American medicine will write a solid book on the misadventures of the American expert class during the pandemic with a prescriptive approach to how we should function in the future. Fauci was and is brilliant in some areas but never had a depth of experience in true public health. His arrogance carried us into many very dysfunctional policies which Dr Marine describes. Thanks for this sober perspective.
A pre-emptive pardon is acknowledgement by the administration they knew that Fauci committed a crime. Otherwise a pardon would be unneeded.
I dispute point 4:
Does Hunter Biden's pardon serve as a badge of dishonor? I seriously doubt that his drug-addled brain can experience any shame whatever. Like Hunter's brain fog, Fauci's arrogance is an internal shield from any sense of shame or dishonor.
And pardon or none, biased media will praise him, and honest media will revile him. His malfeasance did incalculable harm to myriad individuals, he destroyed confidence in public health and further poisoned scientific debate, already a sick patient. Would that Dante's afterworld exist. There should be a special place reserved for AF in the ninth circle.
I agree in general. I had not thought of the clever idea that says, "why pardon somebody [prophylactically] if they have committed no crimes"? I think that Sleepy Joe should not give The Fauch a free skating ticket. Instead, let's ignore Fauch --- totally. He needs no more adulation oxygen. Please.
I completely agree with Dr. Marine based on #4 alone. It also is a huge badge of dishonor for those who labeled many people “conspiracy theorists” and used cancel culture against them. It won’t restore my opinion of public health, but it’ll make people like Fauci think really hard about the things they do. He and Biden made their beds, let’s make sure the beds they lie in reflect THEIR making.
Have you read about how Fauci's NIAID and AIDS "activist" groups experimented On Black and Hispanic Children? https://www.altheal.org/toxicity/house.htm?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
Agreed. I hope we get the real conversations that are due and no one going forward should be accorded the god-like status this man held. While personally I’d like him to spend a few years in solitary confinement for all the harms he caused, prosecution is the wrong way to go for the reasons you describe.
He ought to be prosecuted. He is an unrepentant criminal, à la Mengele.
Prosecuting a politician or bureaucrat for lying is akin to blaming the sun for rising in the east. A complete waste of time and effort that could be better used trying to abolish government agencies. Those who suffered loss of jobs or loved ones could file civil suits to tie Fauci and others up in court but that also accomplishes nothing of substance. It is interesting that many who properly despise Fauci seem to be enthusiastic over the ascension of the prime expositor and facilitator of the covid scam back into the presidency. Those who have faith in the justice system should reflect on the fact that the only person that committed an actual crime in the January 6th "insurrection" not only went unpunished but was actually given a promotion.
But he's not a politician, he's a scientist in the role of a scientific advisor. Scientists should have STANDARDS that point to finding TRUTH as we can best know it. Instead, he tried to hide the truth about Covid origins and tried to ruin the reputations of other scientists in order to hide the truth.
If this were just politicians mudslinging, then whatever - let the mudslingers pardon each other. We all know they're corrupt. BUT he acted as a scientist. Science and medicine have both been obfuscated. Scientists and doctors have lost their jobs and had their reputations intentionally ruined by Fauci to cover his own missteps and guilt. And that's on top of the shoddy job he did directing our Covid response.
Justice for all
If you've directly lied about the origins of a disease that you helped create and plotted to destroy the reputations of other scientists to hide it, you are guilty of high crimes against science. No pardon.
Keep in mind many scientists and doctors who opposed his views are STILL disgraced, STILL have lost their medical licenses, lost their jobs, lost their careers. Where is justice for those who spoke the truth and acted for science while putting their careers on the line? Pardoning Fauci simply sends the message that science and truth are dead.
Put yourself if the shoes of those out-of-work doctors whose medical license was taken away despite brilliant work, brilliant research.... How would you feel?
Many people were injured by the pandemic response. They deserve apologies, restitution, and thorough investigation into the response and covid origin. I think that prosecuting AF for perjury would serve as a distraction from these more important goals.
Joseph, there's a difference between "people" hurt by the pandemic response and top officials including Fauci trying to silence and smear the reputation of researchers and doctors who were offering scientific commentary on the virus, its origins, treatment options, and its lethality. In the former, he made mistakes, possibly to the level of malpractice. But silencing and destroying the reputations of scientists so that the truth is obfuscated is an offense against science itself. No pardon.
And if perjury is all they can get him on just like tax evasion is how you get the mob boss who murdered people, yeah not great, but I'll take it.
I think this general discussion misses a major point -- I have had the same discussion with Jay B and we just disagree. These problems will not be fixed until there are PERSONAL impacts from these kinds of malfeasances in a way that will discourage others in the future from doing the same thing. Most penalties for crimes are as much to discourage future perps as they are to punish those who have done the crime -- this case is no different.
We have an entire infrastructure where those making catastrophic decisions that impact literally millions of people never suffer ANY consequences from their actions for practical purposes. In the same way that CEOs have now been bound (by law) into criminal prosecution (besides civil) for malfeasances committed by their companies it would be equally valuable to have government decision makers held to the same standards. In fact, this is even MORE appropriate for the government group because if the company has a civil suit and loses, the company suffers. If the government has a civil suit (and does not quickly change the law so they cannot be sued that week) and loses, YOU and I suffer since we have to pay the bill. It is utterly perverse.
It sounds sweet to say "Why can't we all be friends?" and "Let's just move on and make things better." But that has a long history of not working. At least visible exposure, transparency, and appropriate punishment will raise a bar for the next megalomaniac that decides to do something different based on a different risk profile.
I'm told that this is the case in Japan. And they are willing to act much faster because of it.
PS: You have an interesting point though that a pardon would mean he was guilty of something. But I think that point will be lost on many people who will think Biden is simply protecting Fauci from "the evil orange haired guy", not that we are admitting his guilt.
This is where time will expose more and I hope Fauci lives long enough to become aware of it. Although I don’t think Mengele ever cared so I doubt Fauci will either.