In my mind it was never about the mask protecting me and it was never about the common respiratory viruses or even the flu.
The question is, does masking stop me from spreading infection if/when I'm asymptomatically infected. If the result is true, a 3pp drop in infections might have been important in the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic when the virus was MUCH more deadly than 6 months later. Discussing wether masking provides benefit visavi common respiratory viruses is pointless.
Another excellent piece. When I thought study was done with N99, I felt the result pointed to a useful strategy for short term symptom avoidance which might be handy for event-planning. The efficacy of the mask itself was not a question; but rather whether one wore it sufficiently often in the trial period.
But knowing now that it was just a surgical mask changes things. I agree that a quantified endpoint like seropositivity should have been used, when the type of mask itself is of dubious efficacy.
Still not sure how they would’ve deployed a placebo however. The control group would’ve had to wear fake masks that looked like surgical masks but had zero filtration capability (akin to N-0). What would that even look like?
Surely this trial would have been even more insightful had there been an option of having random participants wear a mask which was identical to a surgical mask, except for having a filter size which made it totally ineffective at stopping particles which cause disease and/or symptoms.
Did either of you (or the study) mention the following possible confounder? Namely, that people might behave differently when they're assigned to wear the mask. The mask may make them more aware that it's "cold season," so they wash their hands more. Or other people might stay farther away from them because they're wearing a mask.
I am a fully vaccinated/boosted senior and avoided getting Covid until this June, when I visited Chicago and rode the subway without wearing my KN95. I thought since transmission was at a low point that it would be OK, though I knew I was taking a risk. No one was wearing a mask. When my wife and I visited NYC last fall we always wore our KN95 masks when on the subway or in crowded areas. We are retired and have taken other precautions such as not eating indoors at restaurants.
Sure enough, a couple of days after riding a crowded subway to see a performance of The Jersey Boys, I developed symptoms and tested positive 2 days later. So I had to greatly restrict my activities thereafter and I stayed an extra day to hopefully reduce my chances of infecting others on my Amtrak ride back to St. Paul. My cough lasted about 6 weeks. Yes, I know, this is only anecdotal.
Meanwhile, my wife caught Covid on her trip to Paris. She wore her KN95 on the flight, but her traveling companion did not. Her friend got sick first and only tested herself at my wife’s request, after already exposing her. My wife was unable to take Paxlovid, because by the time she got a prescription through a telehealth company, the only pharmacy with Paxlovid had run out. The only Paxlovid they had had expired in March 2023, but they had been given the okay to dispense it by their health officials. Her symptoms included nausea and vomiting and were more severe than her friend’s. They were sick for most of their 2 week stay. They walked around Paris for their sightseeing.
Therefore, I would advise my friends to wear a respirator (KN95 or N95) prior to an important trip as well as on their flight and when in a crowded indoor space. Otherwise their trip may be ruined. A surgical mask may protect others, but not the wearer.
The Olympics will probably be a superspreader event. Unfortunately, when tourists there get Covid, they very likely won’t be able to obtain Paxlovid.
Or you could just live life with your God given immune system that He created to not need vaccines. When we come into contact with anything we build immunities. Crazy since oddly enough that's how God intended it to work. However, people eat too much junk, smoke, drink too much on top of past vaccines that are slowly destroying their immune systems. Add BPA in plastics, chemtrails, pesticides, HFCS in EVERYTHING, etc and boom you have big harma customers for life! I litterally roll my eyes and laugh every time I see someone in a mask. Me along with THOUSANDS don't and won't wear one NOR get a dangerous chemical filled clot shot and we are still kicking! Why did nursing homes lose 80% of residents when all staff and residents were wearing masks and gloves?! I got news...you can triple mask and double glove and never leave your house hiding in your closet and when God says your time is up you'll die in that closet and they'd deemed it rona so they could get extra money from our fraudulent government! It absolutely breaks my heart that people almost FIVE years later are scared or falling for rona! FIVE years of our lives LOST for money and power! I'll add it's these people who screw the rest of us over!
Those of us lucky enough to be born with “normal” immune systems still experience a marked functional decline in immunity as we get into our 7th decade and beyond. Fortunately the mortality rate in nursing homes was nowhere close to 80% and PPE was often lacking or in short supply. In hindsight it is easy to see where public health authorities and other leaders made mistakes. However, I will continue to get my flu shots, shingles vaccine, tetanus boosters and other recommended vaccines. Most MDs and scientists can be trusted to make good faith decisions based on the available evidence. Big pharma is another issue.
I recommend you check out cidrap.umn.edu for updates on infectious diseases and public health.
Maybe in your area, but here yes they reported 80% loss and they ALL wore masks and gloves! I have friends that work in them and even posted pics! Several friends would post pics of a family member in one they were waving at through the glass and grandma sitting in her wheelchair with her mask!
When you guys debate an issue, everyone wins. Your discussion is like a master class in critical thinking and analysis. I love it and it’s very entertaining.
I just want to point out to a couple of the commenters here* that "I could care less" and "I couldn't care less" are indeed used interchangeably. My friend Carol Saller, a former editor at the Chicago Manual of Style, has been my guru about accepting the changes that naturally and organically happen to language. Don't get rankled, think of them as evidence of life. It's freeing! Otherwise you'll set yourself up for a lifetime of hurt (as Merriam-Webster says in their discussion of this very idiom).
*Hi Cate Plys! I think we had kids in the same class at Lab!
Elizabeth, love your bumblebee! I'm going to be obstinate and hold out for "couldn't," keeping in mind the John Cougar Mellencamp song "Hurt So Good." Also, no pain no gain.
There seems to be an unacknowledged harm to long-term masking, a hard-to-quantify psychological and sociological harm comes from a subtle and persistent signaling to the other that "I fear you as a potential threat". Masking and quarantining initially made sense, given the sense of uncertainty that accompanies a pandemic. As time passes, this subtle harm needs to be balanced against the subtle benefit of masks. It makes sense to observe that the benefit from masks in URIs is at best small but if it helps you feel better, go ahead. However, it does not make sense to mandate masking without objective data, given that it carries a small but real potential to amplify division in an already divided world.
re: "The parsimonious explanation for Adam’s evidence-based and aesthetic errors is that he has been wearing his mask too tightly." I suspect that the two largest reasons for wearing a mask have nothing to do with infectious diseases. Look around. Who is wearing masks today? The first reason: People who live in fear. Wearing a mask is like "hiding" in plain sight. Like a child who believes that we can't see them, if they can't see us. People who are not afraid have little motivation to wear a mask. The second reason? Community pressure. Fear of community pressure. Wearing a mask, when everyone is afraid, is an act of conformance - often required by our communities, even when we are not afraid.
People who "wear their mask too tightly" do so out of fear, not out of knowledge.
The phrase is 'couldn't care less', not 'could care less'. As is, you are implying the opposite of what you actually mean.
Do the socks need to worn and unwashed or unworn and washed?
In my mind it was never about the mask protecting me and it was never about the common respiratory viruses or even the flu.
The question is, does masking stop me from spreading infection if/when I'm asymptomatically infected. If the result is true, a 3pp drop in infections might have been important in the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic when the virus was MUCH more deadly than 6 months later. Discussing wether masking provides benefit visavi common respiratory viruses is pointless.
Yabbut what about a mask made out of your lucky socks, Vinay?
Another excellent piece. When I thought study was done with N99, I felt the result pointed to a useful strategy for short term symptom avoidance which might be handy for event-planning. The efficacy of the mask itself was not a question; but rather whether one wore it sufficiently often in the trial period.
But knowing now that it was just a surgical mask changes things. I agree that a quantified endpoint like seropositivity should have been used, when the type of mask itself is of dubious efficacy.
Still not sure how they would’ve deployed a placebo however. The control group would’ve had to wear fake masks that looked like surgical masks but had zero filtration capability (akin to N-0). What would that even look like?
Surely this trial would have been even more insightful had there been an option of having random participants wear a mask which was identical to a surgical mask, except for having a filter size which made it totally ineffective at stopping particles which cause disease and/or symptoms.
Did either of you (or the study) mention the following possible confounder? Namely, that people might behave differently when they're assigned to wear the mask. The mask may make them more aware that it's "cold season," so they wash their hands more. Or other people might stay farther away from them because they're wearing a mask.
I am a fully vaccinated/boosted senior and avoided getting Covid until this June, when I visited Chicago and rode the subway without wearing my KN95. I thought since transmission was at a low point that it would be OK, though I knew I was taking a risk. No one was wearing a mask. When my wife and I visited NYC last fall we always wore our KN95 masks when on the subway or in crowded areas. We are retired and have taken other precautions such as not eating indoors at restaurants.
Sure enough, a couple of days after riding a crowded subway to see a performance of The Jersey Boys, I developed symptoms and tested positive 2 days later. So I had to greatly restrict my activities thereafter and I stayed an extra day to hopefully reduce my chances of infecting others on my Amtrak ride back to St. Paul. My cough lasted about 6 weeks. Yes, I know, this is only anecdotal.
Meanwhile, my wife caught Covid on her trip to Paris. She wore her KN95 on the flight, but her traveling companion did not. Her friend got sick first and only tested herself at my wife’s request, after already exposing her. My wife was unable to take Paxlovid, because by the time she got a prescription through a telehealth company, the only pharmacy with Paxlovid had run out. The only Paxlovid they had had expired in March 2023, but they had been given the okay to dispense it by their health officials. Her symptoms included nausea and vomiting and were more severe than her friend’s. They were sick for most of their 2 week stay. They walked around Paris for their sightseeing.
Therefore, I would advise my friends to wear a respirator (KN95 or N95) prior to an important trip as well as on their flight and when in a crowded indoor space. Otherwise their trip may be ruined. A surgical mask may protect others, but not the wearer.
The Olympics will probably be a superspreader event. Unfortunately, when tourists there get Covid, they very likely won’t be able to obtain Paxlovid.
Or you could just live life with your God given immune system that He created to not need vaccines. When we come into contact with anything we build immunities. Crazy since oddly enough that's how God intended it to work. However, people eat too much junk, smoke, drink too much on top of past vaccines that are slowly destroying their immune systems. Add BPA in plastics, chemtrails, pesticides, HFCS in EVERYTHING, etc and boom you have big harma customers for life! I litterally roll my eyes and laugh every time I see someone in a mask. Me along with THOUSANDS don't and won't wear one NOR get a dangerous chemical filled clot shot and we are still kicking! Why did nursing homes lose 80% of residents when all staff and residents were wearing masks and gloves?! I got news...you can triple mask and double glove and never leave your house hiding in your closet and when God says your time is up you'll die in that closet and they'd deemed it rona so they could get extra money from our fraudulent government! It absolutely breaks my heart that people almost FIVE years later are scared or falling for rona! FIVE years of our lives LOST for money and power! I'll add it's these people who screw the rest of us over!
Those of us lucky enough to be born with “normal” immune systems still experience a marked functional decline in immunity as we get into our 7th decade and beyond. Fortunately the mortality rate in nursing homes was nowhere close to 80% and PPE was often lacking or in short supply. In hindsight it is easy to see where public health authorities and other leaders made mistakes. However, I will continue to get my flu shots, shingles vaccine, tetanus boosters and other recommended vaccines. Most MDs and scientists can be trusted to make good faith decisions based on the available evidence. Big pharma is another issue.
I recommend you check out cidrap.umn.edu for updates on infectious diseases and public health.
Maybe in your area, but here yes they reported 80% loss and they ALL wore masks and gloves! I have friends that work in them and even posted pics! Several friends would post pics of a family member in one they were waving at through the glass and grandma sitting in her wheelchair with her mask!
Great satire on the absurdities of the covid scam. At first, I was almost taken in but then realized it couldn't possibly be serious.
When you guys debate an issue, everyone wins. Your discussion is like a master class in critical thinking and analysis. I love it and it’s very entertaining.
I just want to point out to a couple of the commenters here* that "I could care less" and "I couldn't care less" are indeed used interchangeably. My friend Carol Saller, a former editor at the Chicago Manual of Style, has been my guru about accepting the changes that naturally and organically happen to language. Don't get rankled, think of them as evidence of life. It's freeing! Otherwise you'll set yourself up for a lifetime of hurt (as Merriam-Webster says in their discussion of this very idiom).
*Hi Cate Plys! I think we had kids in the same class at Lab!
Elizabeth, love your bumblebee! I'm going to be obstinate and hold out for "couldn't," keeping in mind the John Cougar Mellencamp song "Hurt So Good." Also, no pain no gain.
There seems to be an unacknowledged harm to long-term masking, a hard-to-quantify psychological and sociological harm comes from a subtle and persistent signaling to the other that "I fear you as a potential threat". Masking and quarantining initially made sense, given the sense of uncertainty that accompanies a pandemic. As time passes, this subtle harm needs to be balanced against the subtle benefit of masks. It makes sense to observe that the benefit from masks in URIs is at best small but if it helps you feel better, go ahead. However, it does not make sense to mandate masking without objective data, given that it carries a small but real potential to amplify division in an already divided world.
After Ben Recht posts the 4th article on the subject, I propose a 5th article containing only acerbic ad hominem attacks about all authors involved.
I'm assuming you mean you COULDN'T care less.
(I COULD care less means just that).
re: "The parsimonious explanation for Adam’s evidence-based and aesthetic errors is that he has been wearing his mask too tightly." I suspect that the two largest reasons for wearing a mask have nothing to do with infectious diseases. Look around. Who is wearing masks today? The first reason: People who live in fear. Wearing a mask is like "hiding" in plain sight. Like a child who believes that we can't see them, if they can't see us. People who are not afraid have little motivation to wear a mask. The second reason? Community pressure. Fear of community pressure. Wearing a mask, when everyone is afraid, is an act of conformance - often required by our communities, even when we are not afraid.
People who "wear their mask too tightly" do so out of fear, not out of knowledge.
to your health, tracy
I was waiting for this 😆 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I like it because I practice reflective medicine, and the touch of humor is great in both senses. I love the shirt!