I agree with Vinay,John, & Adam’s comments about Mayo Clinic’s poor treatment of Mike Joyner…what a difference a few years make…the following excerpt is from an article discussing the recent reprimand that pointed out a different attitude at Mayo not long ago, “In a 2016 Rochester Magazine profile titled “This person is a cheeky heretic,” Mayo Clinic Proceedings Editor-in-Chief Dr. William Lanier praised Joyner’s challenging approach to communication.
“Whether you agree with him or not, it is always entertaining to hear his ideas, and he is the type of scientist and colleague who constantly encourages us to challenge our thinking as he challenges his own thinking,” Lanier stated at the time.”
It is disheartening to see the loss of intellectual curiosity in so many aspects of our society now beginning to infect the field of medicine. I did not see the CNN interview referred to, but I do know that our inability to have robust & honest discussions around these issues (or focusing on the number offended instead of the actual issue at hand) will result in substandard medical practices and poor policies. Carole Hooven, PhD at Harvard suffered a worse fate than Mike Joyner for giving interviews in her area of expertise—this should not happen to serious scientists!! SEGM (Society for Evidenced based Gender Medicine) and Independent Council on Women’s Sports (ICONS) are two apolitical & secular organizations trying to start these discussions in a respectful way. I hope they gain some traction along with (more broadly for their work on free speech in general) FIRE & FAIR. Thank you for the work you are doing & for having this discussion.
P.S. Vinay, you've got anti-vax people here who are allegedly doctors, so you REALLY need to set the record straight if you believe this is an important enough issue!
I think the fact Hotez has been stalked at his home, where he lives with his wife and children, might play a role why he doesn't want to debate RFK, and I don't blame him. If you are single without kids, Vinay, then I nominate you because you've already laid out a good plan of what to say, and you would be more convincing than Hotez, as you would listen to and acknowledge RFK's legitimate points, while cogently debunking the misinformation. If a mind can possibly be changed, that's the way to do it. You might also ask RFK beforehand, if possible, "What evidence would it take to change your mind?" If he says nothing could change his mind, then you know the debate would be a waste of time.
I had thought of Paul Offit as a better choice than Hotez to debate RFK JR. The problem I have is with the whole forum. As in today’s political debates, would such a forum change anyone’s mind? I’ve not listened to Rogan, so I don’t know what the scenario is like. 🤷🏼♀️ I’m imagining an audience full of MAGA yahoos. Of course, VP would probably be the best choice.
Here’s a tip from the Greeks: don’t just call someone an idiot. Up your game and take pride in your insults by crafting a unique and creative insult. That way, you simultaneously demonstrate your own cleverness.
You guys keep talking about how RFK Jr is wrong about MMR and autism but you don’t ever quote studies or provide evidence to support your position. Why so stingy with the scientific evidence you supposedly have? What are you guys, the three scrooges? You don’t have to answer because I already know. Hotez wouldn’t lose the debate because he was wrong about CoVid. He would lose because he’s wrong about MMR and the safety and efficacy of all vaccines. And as long as you guys keep digging in without science, you do sound like Larry, Curly and Moe.
Vinay, you are the obvious candidate to debate RFK Jr. And here’s a frightening truth: you would lose to even me because the truth is the truth and the facts are facts and it’s high time you do your own digging.
I find the whole topic of testosterone replacement to be so interesting in light of the way women's issues and HRT is treated! The gradual decline of testosterone levels during the aging process makes complete sense. The list of "symptoms" of "low T" is as ubiquitous and vague as those for hypothyroidism and certainly common in middle age and beyond. The interest in all of this was marginal in the past when testosterone was only available as an IM injection - there were men who used it, but not many. once big Pharma came out with topical testosterone gel, the industry (and the "condition") skyrocketed. Again, big business and big money involved. Topical testosterone is also typically covered by insurance. Which seems to follow a general trend that male-focused issues are acceptably covered. HRT for women stimulates repeated letters of "high risk medication use" from Medicare - even TOPICAL estrogen cream that has very legitimate and safe indications for prescribing and is very low risk, is labeled "high risk med" and insurance companies don't cover well. So men are able to use topical testosterone at insurance expense with little to no data that this is beneficial and really minimal data that it is not, in fact, harmful! While women are denied estrogen cream for very obvious and painful symptoms.
As pointed out, the entire arc of HRT for women proved that there may be reasons why the natural state of aging is the "healthiest" route and that Pharma intervention is not the answer should warn us that "male menopause" is equally natural and very unlikely that "replacing" and augmenting testosterone levels is good in the long run.
I'm on Medicare and have the Part D drug plan, and have had no problem getting both my Estradiol patches and my micronized progesterone pills covered by insurance. After reading the book "Estrogen Matters" by Dr. Avrum Bluming and Dr. Carol Tavris, I feel comfortable taking HRT. The book summarizes the research literature, including some of the travesties of the WHI. As Dr. Peter Attia has pointed out, the hormones prescribed today are different than those used in the WHI, and physicians now know the proper timing when to start, so while there's no follow-up research on this, they are most likely even safer than the WHI studies. Attia has several really good podcast interviews with doctors expert in their fields of men's and women's sexual health, including HRT for both.
As a senior (83), I find myself getting weaker and weaker despite mild workouts. So got my T checked to find it low. Primary wanted shots because gel hardly works. So I decided compounded 10% T creme. We shall see. PSA not elevated, mildly enlarged prostate, no apparent heart issues but COPD and CKD. I'm just tired of being tired.
I agree with Vinay,John, & Adam’s comments about Mayo Clinic’s poor treatment of Mike Joyner…what a difference a few years make…the following excerpt is from an article discussing the recent reprimand that pointed out a different attitude at Mayo not long ago, “In a 2016 Rochester Magazine profile titled “This person is a cheeky heretic,” Mayo Clinic Proceedings Editor-in-Chief Dr. William Lanier praised Joyner’s challenging approach to communication.
“Whether you agree with him or not, it is always entertaining to hear his ideas, and he is the type of scientist and colleague who constantly encourages us to challenge our thinking as he challenges his own thinking,” Lanier stated at the time.”
It is disheartening to see the loss of intellectual curiosity in so many aspects of our society now beginning to infect the field of medicine. I did not see the CNN interview referred to, but I do know that our inability to have robust & honest discussions around these issues (or focusing on the number offended instead of the actual issue at hand) will result in substandard medical practices and poor policies. Carole Hooven, PhD at Harvard suffered a worse fate than Mike Joyner for giving interviews in her area of expertise—this should not happen to serious scientists!! SEGM (Society for Evidenced based Gender Medicine) and Independent Council on Women’s Sports (ICONS) are two apolitical & secular organizations trying to start these discussions in a respectful way. I hope they gain some traction along with (more broadly for their work on free speech in general) FIRE & FAIR. Thank you for the work you are doing & for having this discussion.
P.S. Vinay, you've got anti-vax people here who are allegedly doctors, so you REALLY need to set the record straight if you believe this is an important enough issue!
I think the fact Hotez has been stalked at his home, where he lives with his wife and children, might play a role why he doesn't want to debate RFK, and I don't blame him. If you are single without kids, Vinay, then I nominate you because you've already laid out a good plan of what to say, and you would be more convincing than Hotez, as you would listen to and acknowledge RFK's legitimate points, while cogently debunking the misinformation. If a mind can possibly be changed, that's the way to do it. You might also ask RFK beforehand, if possible, "What evidence would it take to change your mind?" If he says nothing could change his mind, then you know the debate would be a waste of time.
I had thought of Paul Offit as a better choice than Hotez to debate RFK JR. The problem I have is with the whole forum. As in today’s political debates, would such a forum change anyone’s mind? I’ve not listened to Rogan, so I don’t know what the scenario is like. 🤷🏼♀️ I’m imagining an audience full of MAGA yahoos. Of course, VP would probably be the best choice.
Here’s a tip from the Greeks: don’t just call someone an idiot. Up your game and take pride in your insults by crafting a unique and creative insult. That way, you simultaneously demonstrate your own cleverness.
You guys keep talking about how RFK Jr is wrong about MMR and autism but you don’t ever quote studies or provide evidence to support your position. Why so stingy with the scientific evidence you supposedly have? What are you guys, the three scrooges? You don’t have to answer because I already know. Hotez wouldn’t lose the debate because he was wrong about CoVid. He would lose because he’s wrong about MMR and the safety and efficacy of all vaccines. And as long as you guys keep digging in without science, you do sound like Larry, Curly and Moe.
Vinay, you are the obvious candidate to debate RFK Jr. And here’s a frightening truth: you would lose to even me because the truth is the truth and the facts are facts and it’s high time you do your own digging.
Start here. At least know who these people are:
Dr Poul Thorsen
Scroll down. He’s in the top ten.
https://oig.hhs.gov/fraud/fugitives/
Best not to use any of the Danish studies (Statens Serum institute) because that’s who authored them.
FF to minute 14:30. Thorsen was responsible for 21 of the CDC’s 24 vaccine safety studies at the time of this hearing.
https://youtu.be/ps98Fk6HIJs
Also know who is Professor John Walker Smith and Dr William Thompson
https://youtu.be/qxr-cv-JuI8
And for the love of God, follow Aaron Siri on Substack
VP v RFK jr.... debate...or better yet cage match.... 🍿🍿🔥🔥🤣🤣
I want to see the Prasad RFK debate
Adam
You used the pun! Awesome!
I find the whole topic of testosterone replacement to be so interesting in light of the way women's issues and HRT is treated! The gradual decline of testosterone levels during the aging process makes complete sense. The list of "symptoms" of "low T" is as ubiquitous and vague as those for hypothyroidism and certainly common in middle age and beyond. The interest in all of this was marginal in the past when testosterone was only available as an IM injection - there were men who used it, but not many. once big Pharma came out with topical testosterone gel, the industry (and the "condition") skyrocketed. Again, big business and big money involved. Topical testosterone is also typically covered by insurance. Which seems to follow a general trend that male-focused issues are acceptably covered. HRT for women stimulates repeated letters of "high risk medication use" from Medicare - even TOPICAL estrogen cream that has very legitimate and safe indications for prescribing and is very low risk, is labeled "high risk med" and insurance companies don't cover well. So men are able to use topical testosterone at insurance expense with little to no data that this is beneficial and really minimal data that it is not, in fact, harmful! While women are denied estrogen cream for very obvious and painful symptoms.
As pointed out, the entire arc of HRT for women proved that there may be reasons why the natural state of aging is the "healthiest" route and that Pharma intervention is not the answer should warn us that "male menopause" is equally natural and very unlikely that "replacing" and augmenting testosterone levels is good in the long run.
I'm on Medicare and have the Part D drug plan, and have had no problem getting both my Estradiol patches and my micronized progesterone pills covered by insurance. After reading the book "Estrogen Matters" by Dr. Avrum Bluming and Dr. Carol Tavris, I feel comfortable taking HRT. The book summarizes the research literature, including some of the travesties of the WHI. As Dr. Peter Attia has pointed out, the hormones prescribed today are different than those used in the WHI, and physicians now know the proper timing when to start, so while there's no follow-up research on this, they are most likely even safer than the WHI studies. Attia has several really good podcast interviews with doctors expert in their fields of men's and women's sexual health, including HRT for both.
As a senior (83), I find myself getting weaker and weaker despite mild workouts. So got my T checked to find it low. Primary wanted shots because gel hardly works. So I decided compounded 10% T creme. We shall see. PSA not elevated, mildly enlarged prostate, no apparent heart issues but COPD and CKD. I'm just tired of being tired.
Transcript coming? Please?
On the last topic, they have category for those folks, the Special Olympics (transgender).